Curse

frojack · Mar 17, 2006, 06:04 AM // 06:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

No.

Its the same reason you don't see Channeling in gvg. You will see it in HA because its closer quarters.

I predict there will be a lot of this. Especially considering that VIM is such a good healing ability for hp and energy (if you discount the need for conditions).
What I also found fantastic about this ability is that it's a 'shout'. It can't be interupted. While it can be stopped by other means, it's still quite impressive.
When I was testing VIM out, I quite humourously noticed I could even use it even when knocked down, Which was pretty funny. Healing when your on ground lol. Only problem with it was the need for conditions. Something Assassins won't have much trouble with.

Anyway, sorry for the tangent.

Temple + Twisted is very nasty indeed. If you take another lead attack (as you might in case your 'flow' is interupted) if you take Mantis Sting, that's cripple also. 5 conditions. That's almost all of them lol. I mean, what's left...
Disease, Poison, burning?

Actually, if you tack on Entangling Asp after Mantis that's also poisoning. If the target is not dead already. 6 Conditions? Well we'll see I suppose. BTW, with VIM, that's (at 12 tactics) 336 hp and 30 energy

.

I Will Avenge Me · Mar 17, 2006, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Even without the fevered dreams combo temple strike still needs a nerf. That or buff skull crack, but even then, 2 assasins for the 2 monks, boom temple strike, then let 2 spike rangers take out one and 2 other spike rangers take out the other. Even though theres only 2 rangers per monk, they will be completly unable to help themself and the spike from assasin combos should do the trick.

Alonsiddog · Mar 17, 2006, 07:42 AM // 07:42

Meh, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. The main reasons I don't like this build is because of the wealth of skills to remove conditions. This build would be amazing with fragility, but it seems a lot of micromanagement to me.

Maddie · Mar 17, 2006, 09:15 AM // 09:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alonsiddog

Doesn't anyone know that Fevered dreams and Temple Strike are both elites?

and dont you know that.. ugg..

you can have 1 mesmer
and then 4 assasins.

So NOT NOT NOT on the same character.. Gee, that was hard to think about

Asrial · Mar 17, 2006, 09:34 AM // 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Will Avenge Me

Even without the fevered dreams combo temple strike still needs a nerf. That or buff skull crack, but even then, 2 assasins for the 2 monks, boom temple strike, then let 2 spike rangers take out one and 2 other spike rangers take out the other. Even though theres only 2 rangers per monk, they will be completly unable to help themself and the spike from assasin combos should do the trick.

Meanwhile, the other 6 people on the team with the monks is sitting there twiddling their thumbs.

Alonsiddog · Mar 17, 2006, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maddie

and dont you know that.. ugg..

you can have 1 mesmer
and then 4 assasins.

So NOT NOT NOT on the same character.. Gee, that was hard to think about

Try reading the rest of the topic before posting, it makes you look less of a tool.

twicky_kid · Mar 17, 2006, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alonsiddog

This build would be amazing with fragility, but it seems a lot of micromanagement to me.

Not at all. I would post my build but I don't want other's using it until the game comes out. You can make your own version of course but that isn't mine so that's ok.

Its really no different than a degen hex build. You spread the degen around wearing down the team then spike the targets that get low. Same concept here.

With the build I'm creating you can do a fevered + temple spike and have another war spiking along with casters. Its going to be really nasty when you only need 2 people for each spike.

Look at it this way. If there was a spell that added 5 conditions (cripple, blind, dazed, deep wound, bleeding) in an area around the target would you use it?

My answer is hell ya. Since you can spike the conditions in 1 spell cast and 2 melee hits (also teleport to target) its going to very hard to prevent and harder to recover once dazed is added in. Unlike warriors assassins have a better chance of hitting their targets with their skills.

frojack · Mar 17, 2006, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Additionally, Dazed (one of, if not the most devastating conditions for casters) can be covered up quite easilly with another condition. In fact, considering the order of the description, Temple strike covers up Dazed automatically for you with Blindness!
Sorry, but that is stupidly over-powered.

With a proposed recharge of 12 seconds, and a required lead attack, say something quick like Jagged Strike (6 second recharge), you have some what spammable devastation.

Add also to this the fact that everyones bread and butter condition remover (Mend Ailement) has been weakened... Ouch.

Alonsiddog · Mar 17, 2006, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Look at it this way. If there was a spell that added 5 conditions (cripple, blind, dazed, deep wound, bleeding) in an area around the target would you use it?

The thing is, this would have the 2 sec cast from fevered dreams (albeit from another person), then you have to cast dancing daggers (1 sec), death's charge (1 sec), THEN you have to wait for your temple strike to go off (1.33sec) and then your twisted fangs (1.33sec).

This gives a total cost of 4.66sec cast AND 30 energy to the assassin, 10 energy and 2 secs of casting for someone else on your team (not including fragility). You also have to rely on the fact that none of your attacks miss, especially temple strike.

In my opinion, it has too many variables (and you'd be forced into a particular armour set to pull it off) to be viable.

EDIT: By the way, this combo would NOT cause crippled, because Crippling dagger doesn't count as a lead attack, and dancing daggers (which does) doesn't cripple. Even if you added crippling dagger at the start of the combo, the person has to have their back to you AND be moving away for them to be crippled by this.

twicky_kid · Mar 17, 2006, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by frojack

Add also to this the fact that everyones bread and butter condition remover (Mend Ailement) has been weakened... Ouch.

Martyr is a 1 sec casting now so under dazed that's a 2 second cast. Can you say interrupt!!!

2 Mes with FD + Frag and 2 temple zins oh

Spike 2 different targets spread from each other and watch the slaghter begin.

If the other team is unable to remove the conditions due to daze and interrupts they are going to die quickly.

FD recharge 10, frag 10, temple 12, twisted fangs 12

7 second dazed and blind. That's a 5 second down time before the next spike comes. I'm not sure duation of deep wound and bleeding as gameamp decided not to list duration.

Kariston The Swift · Mar 17, 2006, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Already ran into a build similiar to this except they had a Concussion shot ranger , Virulence warrior, 2 FD Mesmers and a Tainted necro. Basically FD the Dazed and FD the Disease, poison and weakness from Virulence. Worked pretty well considering the tight space around the flag stand in that particular gvg map. Oh and we couldn't heal party because the mesmers had put Scourge healing on almost the whole team making the person with heal party take 200+ damage everytime they did it.

twicky_kid · Mar 18, 2006, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alonsiddog

The thing is, this would have the 2 sec cast from fevered dreams.

By the way, this combo would NOT cause crippled, because Crippling dagger doesn't count as a lead attack, and dancing daggers (which does) doesn't cripple. Even if you added crippling dagger at the start of the combo, the person has to have their back to you AND be moving away for them to be crippled by this.

Wrong, 10 fast cast makes FD 1.30 cast basily 1 1/4.

Dancing Daggers is the lead off. It hits 3 times is a spell so it won't miss. Lead off attacks leave their marker for about 5 seconds. Dancing daggers recharge is 5 seconds. You can switch targets on the fly if you wanted.

You do have to hit with the attack but rigor and expose def ensures you will hit with temple + twisted while offering more cover hexes.

Crippling can come from a ranger along with poison or use virulence for poison weakness. You are going to have a ranger or mes interrupt or lock down the martyr restore condition users.

Alonsiddog · Mar 18, 2006, 12:56 AM // 00:56

The idea the I got from your original statement was that crippling would come from the assassin. The cast of Fevered dreams is negligible, I agree, but the real trouble is 4.66sec for the assassin, and the 30 energy cost.

Here’s a list of some of the drawbacks of this combo:

· Cost of 30 energy (meaning you HAVE to have the Zodiac shroud armour set, and that’s still cutting it fine when people can drain your energy) plus the 4.66sec it takes to pull off (at 0 latency and instant human reactions)
· Requires you to rely on other people, which means you won’t be able to use it in Random Arenas
· Requires all of your attacks to hit (especially temple strike)
· It requires there to be a large group of people together for it to have maximum effectiveness
· Because you won’t be using this in random arenas, the other team will likely be highly organised and easily able to counter your strategy

twicky_kid · Mar 18, 2006, 01:56 AM // 01:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alonsiddog

The idea the I got from your original statement was that crippling would come from the assassin. The cast of Fevered dreams is negligible, I agree, but the real trouble is 4.66sec for the assassin, and the 30 energy cost.

25 energy

2.66 for temple and twisted w/o IAS

don't be fooled by false numbers

Alonsiddog · Mar 18, 2006, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

25 energy

2.66 for temple and twisted w/o IAS

don't be fooled by false numbers

Where do you get your numbers from? So far I've only seen it listed as:

Dancing daggers: 5 energy, 1 sec cast
Death's Charge: 5 Energy, 1 sec cast
Temple strike: 10 energy, 1.33sec (wait for the attack)
Twisted fangs: 10 energy, 1.33sec

twicky_kid · Mar 18, 2006, 02:48 AM // 02:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alonsiddog

Where do you get your numbers from? So far I've only seen it listed as:

Dancing daggers: 5 energy, 1 sec cast
Death's Charge: 5 Energy, 1 sec cast
Temple strike: 10 energy, 1.33sec (wait for the attack)
Twisted fangs: 10 energy, 1.33sec

Dancing daggers lead off marker will last for 5 seconds. Recharges in 5 seconds so you can maintian the marker or change targets to fool monks. You don't have go immediatly into off-hand>dual.

You won't always need death's charge and is probly not a good idea with a 45 recharge. Its just a shadow step skill I used for the example. Zins have plenty of run skills and some cripple like caltrops.

Temple 1.33
twisted 1.33

that's 25e for dagger>temple>twisted

It doesn't matter how you look at any of the zin attacks they are all going to be expensive. Just the way it was made.

Vermilion Okeanos · Mar 18, 2006, 06:10 AM // 06:10

Personally, you guys are arguing over abosolutely nothing... More like an ego issue than a build issue.

Guardian of the Light · Mar 18, 2006, 07:47 AM // 07:47

Notice were argueing about a skill that we got in a preview that probably be taken out b/c so many people are whining about it.

Ya but Temple strike is pretty freaken overpowered. I mean unlike other dazes you don't need to intrupt for it and it covers up automatcally. Whatever Anet isn't dumb they probably saw this and now mybe Blindness will be taken out or something.

ShadowMagus · Mar 18, 2006, 08:14 AM // 08:14

None of you have apparently discovered that there is another daze skill being introduced - the ranger elite Broad Head Arrow happens to cause daze, and as far as I can discern, without requireing anything other than it hitting.

I got this information as a very plainly written fact that came with the factions pre-order package - if anyone would care to read it and confirm.

Rogmar · Mar 18, 2006, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by frojack

Add also to this the fact that everyones bread and butter condition remover (Mend Ailement) has been weakened... Ouch.

Actually it would seem stronger because it heals for every remaining condition.
Edit: Didn't know you were referring to the skill updates.